Curse

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 12, 2007, 01:46 AM // 01:46

wait.. someone just said removing shrines promotes holding builds? Holding.. what? Holding builds refers to Old HoH type matches where people would cap and win without killing. A holding build can't work if points are only rewarded for killing. And a bunch of spirit spamming can't work with no shrines because anyone can just flag a retreat if the pressure reaches too high.

The only possible problem of no shrines are all out running builds for harrasment's sake, and a simple cripple or shadow prison or w/e easily defeats this.

Does-it-Matter · Apr 12, 2007, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

wait.. someone just said removing shrines promotes holding builds? Holding.. what? Holding builds refers to Old HoH type matches where people would cap and win without killing. A holding build can't work if points are only rewarded for killing. And a bunch of spirit spamming can't work with no shrines because anyone can just flag a retreat if the pressure reaches too high.

The reference is to removing all the shrines but the center one, in the belief that having ONE shrine will promote persons to fight over control of it, rather than manuvering around four or more different ones.

The problem though is that would promote a build that can get to the single shrine and remain in control of it (read: holding) as you mentioned in HoH.

---

A 4v4 Hereos + Player arena would be fun too, but it's not what the HvH Arena is supposed to be.

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 12, 2007, 04:16 AM // 04:16

hmm.. I could've sworn the OP said remove all shrines.

EDIT: Yup. no mention of a center shrine staying.

Hell Raiser · Apr 12, 2007, 04:40 AM // 04:40

I don't think they should remove shrines, just remove the Morale pip gain from all shrines except center. This does not promote holding builds because of Mercenaries (except on siege map). Right now it is incredibly boring, it is basically a race; Heroes sit at shrine and attack back and forth, while the humans race to cap shrines.

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 12, 2007, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

I don't think they should remove shrines, just remove the Morale pip gain from all shrines except center. This does not promote holding builds because of Mercenaries (except on siege map). Right now it is incredibly boring, it is basically a race; Heroes sit at shrine and attack back and forth, while the humans race to cap shrines.

That would kinda promote the same thing tho.. except it'd be the hench shrine that humans would race to.

BlackSephir · Apr 12, 2007, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

running = pve..... fighting = pvp

and incase you didnt know HB= pvp lol.

yeah, flaggers are SO pve...

/not signed

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 12, 2007, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

yeah, flaggers are SO pve...

/not signed

yes.. but gvg isnt 8 flag runners is it? You'd hear a massive outcry if it were. HvH is 4 runners.

BlackSephir · Apr 12, 2007, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

yes.. but gvg isnt 8 flag runners is it? You'd hear a massive outcry if it were. HvH is 4 runners.

Nah, I've been the only one running (I don't trust heroes >_>) and it wasn't so bad

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 12, 2007, 07:30 AM // 07:30

yes but hvh is going to be treated (almost) on par with gvg given the daily tournaments. I find it hard to believe that the primary task played is "flag running" given certain options like hero target locking and stuff that were added.

I'd ask Anet myself if it was intended for hero vs hero to turn into runner vs runner, but they do not respond to individual responses.

In any case it "sucks". This is coming from someone who is winning using these tactics, not by someone who is losing and complaining about how they cannot use these tactics to win.

(please respond to this thread anet!! purty please!)

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 13, 2007, 08:52 AM // 08:52

bump! Major mechanics of tournament play. Pretty important stuff

NeHoMaR · Apr 13, 2007, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letterkills

/notsigned

what is the point in playing TA/RA but 1v1+heroes?

What the point? maybe the fun?

I would love a place for fight RA/TA maps with heroes, I was indeed expecting that with the release of Nightfall; not RA, not TA, not HB, let that places the same; I am thinking in change one of the USELESS Zaizhen arenas in a place where you play 1vs1 with your heroes in RA/TA maps. I swear I will play all day no stop in a place like that. RA with my OWN heroes, OMG! that is one of my dreams of 100% FUN!!

EDIT: Well, I am editing this thing because I want to say even being a Commander (3), today I will stop playing HB forever! I DONT LIKE IT now, I don't like run, and run, and being in a stupid competition on who run more, and reading insulting comments in chat like "please resign, you can win, I capped all, blah, blah, blah" and don't kill me not even 1 time. This is 100% stupid, this is NOT PvP at all, this is like child game! Arenanet, thank you for destroy one of my favorite part of the game. My anger is even BIGGER now because I like too much the ladder idea and I can't participate!

mafia cyborg · Apr 14, 2007, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Give Us Ta For Heroes! Pls Anet Listen ...

NeHoMaR · Apr 14, 2007, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia cyborg

Give Us Ta For Heroes! Pls Anet Listen ...

I am sure Arenanet has that feature secretly in their office

It's so fun, they can't resist. Maybe they has a version of HB with the shrines disabled, and they play all day for 100% fun, Hahahaha!

EVERYBODY know it's funner fight/kill than capture shrines and run, it's something instinctive inside the human brain! The savage part we all have! It's for that reason Shooters sell so well.

Master Ketsu · Apr 14, 2007, 07:43 AM // 07:43

/halfsigned.

I think hero battles should have shrines, but the shrines should be nerfed to a minor secondary roll ( much like they are in RA ) as opposed to being the win conditions.

Health shrine: +50 max health

Points are entirely based off kill count in some maps, and elimination in others.
Shrines should grant nothing towards the win condition.

Catapult shrines (??): Nerfed to only 25% of the power they are now

Remove completely the shrines that grant you an extra fighter with you and replace with obelisk stands.

Add +3 health regen shrines to replace all the other various borked shrines.

Change the "Double damage, half damage" areas to "+20%, -20%"

In other words, their should still be shrines as it gives you something to use the hero flagging for, but shrines should be a backseat secondary to the main objective: Which should be actuall fighting AKA PvP. Currently hero battles are capfests, which is really just glorified PvE.

The Ernada · Apr 14, 2007, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Instead of removing shrines, add different map objectives that rotate. Or slow down the morale point rate. Do SOMETHING that makes it so that certain builds built strictly for ganking/shrine capping don't dominate HB. And so that boredom doesnt set in when most of the time you're just running in HB.

Give us variety in different objectives.

Not A Fifty Five · Apr 14, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

/halfsigned.

I think hero battles should have shrines, but the shrines should be nerfed to a minor secondary roll ( much like they are in RA ) as opposed to being the win conditions.

Health shrine: +50 max health

Points are entirely based off kill count in some maps, and elimination in others.
Shrines should grant nothing towards the win condition.

Catapult shrines (??): Nerfed to only 25% of the power they are now

Remove completely the shrines that grant you an extra fighter with you and replace with obelisk stands.

Add +3 health regen shrines to replace all the other various borked shrines.

Change the "Double damage, half damage" areas to "+20%, -20%"

In other words, their should still be shrines as it gives you something to use the hero flagging for, but shrines should be a backseat secondary to the main objective: Which should be actuall fighting AKA PvP. Currently hero battles are capfests, which is really just glorified PvE.

While I think this is a good idea, I think a total removal is needed. Because if Anet dimmed the power of shrines they're just going to do it mildly and say they solved the problem and then it won't be >.>

Capping's always just sucked period. There's a reason most PvPers view AB even lower than RA as a mark of experience (No offense, it really is. Not that it isn't fun as hell...).

AB also has ~ 3 people for every shrine, almost 4, the maximum capping amount.

Now if AB had 12 shrines allotted so that they equidistant to the res points on each side... I'm pretty sure you'd get people saying "Freaking gay" and rightly so.

NeHoMaR · Apr 14, 2007, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

Capping's always just sucked period. There's a reason most PvPers view AB even lower than RA as a mark of experience (No offense, it really is. Not that it isn't fun as hell...).

Yeah, just imagine if you could win Luxon/Kursick faction in RA, I think AB will end and will be 100% empty forever in less than 24 hours.

Also, imagine a AB with a 12vs12 killing (smaller) arena, no shrines, just kill; it's plenty obvious the population/popularity will increase. Now, my question is: Doesn't Arenanet know this?

Note: I am NOT 100% against capturing shrines; My problem is I don't like a place when the ONLY thing you do is capturing shrines!

Snowball Fights is better than HB right now! even with the event! at least in Snowball Fights you do TWO things, give presents to the Gods, and kill enemies.

GEXTE · Apr 14, 2007, 02:19 PM // 14:19

I agree completely, remove the shrines!

Or how about this, just wipe Hero Battles off the map and introduce 1 vs 1 GvG with heroes.
It's about killing and you still got a cap point for those who like running (the flag stand).

Navaros · Apr 14, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Hero "Battles" should actually be battles. Exactly like in TA/RA. Not "Hero Cap Shrineses".

Removing Shrines entirely is a great idea, and would make HVH 100 000x better and more fun.

/signed

NeHoMaR · Apr 14, 2007, 03:16 PM // 15:16

I don't think they will "remove" the shrines from HB, my suggestion is for a new RA/TA with heroes. And the OP agree at least with the central shrine (I agree too)

I agree with whatever change they do to HB if that change force the team to fight, I want fights, I want Heroes' BATTLES! not Heroes' FLAG-PUTTING-RUNNER!

Anyway, I think HB was designed for capture central shrine only, no? for that reason the system started that way!